Hydrolock Condition blew out my gears

[CruisingMale]

The hydrolock happened to me and the worst happened because I was silly.  It is a new to me bike and the seller warned me but I forgot to shut off the fuel valve.  I need a HUGE FLASHING SIGN IN FRONT OF ME TO REMEMBER (Senior hours, not moments)

I took the starter off.  Sure enough, the starter 15 tooth gear has 3 or 4 missing teeth, the idler gear has one missing tooth.  Furthermore, the case looks like it is cracked where the idler gear shaft is normally kept.  The starte clutch gear appears to have all of its teeth.

I called two HONDA dealership mechanics and they said they never heard of this in their 27 years experience.   But worse case required a 10 hour flat rate engine removal and rear case opening and press fit the starter 15tooth starter gear.

Although I am an experienced mechanic of 50 years (61 years old), I am getting more and more unsure of myself.  Especially with these precise machines.  

The manual says two special tools are required to loosen the shaft lock nut and to torque the lock nut with a horizontal adapter tool.  Question is --- do I need them?

Other obvious question is how many hours total will this take? can I inadvertently damage the engine easily during removal?  Will I find other things wrong inside?  Will I find all of the teeth pieces in the bottom of the pan or will I have to totally take apart the engine?  

Will I be better off letting the Honda shop do the work and at least get their guarantee?  Or will they use the weasel clause and say the work isn't guaranteed because other parts may have failed after the fact?

I am of the school that the only way to do something right is to do it myself but that was when I didn't make mistakes.


I am very depressed over this.  The bike fit me perfect and I was almost on my way from NY to Sturgis.  

To qutoe the forum   #12 Fuel shut off switch failure. Some switches have failed to cut off the fuel supply while in the ON position, with the engine off, due to the diaphragm in the petc0ck failing, resulting in the cylinders filling up with gas. If you crank your engine and get a click and/or a teeth not meshing/grinding sound, there is the possibility that the engine is frozen due to a hydrolock condition. This can cause the starter idler gear to break. ALWAYS turn the fuel switch to the OFF position when not riding.

Thanks for the help, Mike

[nova]

Sorry to hear about your fuel valve incident. Just curious but how long did you leave the fuel valve open before the hydrolock occurred ?  You would think Honda would have some kind of recall on faulty fuel diaphrams. Anyway keep us updated on your progress with getting your Valk humming again.

[jdwhealton]

Thanks for reminding me Mike.....I ran right out to the garage and shut off my fuel again. Sorry this happened to you...apparently doesn't happen very often, but when it does.....man, what trouble. :explode:

jd

               

[kz1300]

I'm pretty sure hydrolok is caused by faulty carbs leaking fuel not he shutoff. So fixing the faulty valve will not save you from hydrolok.

Hydrolock is almost always caused by trash in your float needle valve orifice stopping the float from shutting off the fuel. Only real cure to prevent recurrence is  A. Clear the offending carb float or float's needle orifice and B. install an inline filter from your petc0ck to your carbs. Turning your fuel off with whatever petc0ck you have will not prevent hydrolock. (both Stock and aftermarket Pingle valves have proved this)  There is enough gas in the float bowl and gas line's to cause it. Big discussions over the years as to cause and effect on the VRCC tech board and here about this. "Some" advocate running Marvel Mystery oil in the gas tank for prevention and Seafoam to clear it.  But no matter what else you do an inline filter should be mandatory to help prevent recurrence. As the factory and after-market petc0ck screens will not filter particles that cause this.
Good look on your fix hope it's not to expensive. Maybe more will learn prevention from your problem and the hydrolock problem will dissipate ( - =

[CruisingMale]

This forum did not send emails when a reply is posted and it has taken me 4 months to get back on but here is an update.

Update, on my hydro lock.  I finally got up the nerve and  I torn down the engine my self.  I found the idle gear and start gear stripped.  I also found a hair line crack in the rear cluck case where the idle gear shaft sits.  I took the case to a precision welder who happened to be a biker.  He TIG welded it and reinforced the outside of the casing which surronds the shaft.  I am slowly getting the bike back together.

Jim, on this thread, said that no matter what kind of shut of is used, if the carb leaks fuel into the intake manifold, all is lost.   So I will install a filter as he suggests.  I do not want to rebuild a carb right now, so I will be very cautious.

Nova asked how long the bike was sitting,  answer is about 7 days.

For what it is worth.  I bought all the parts from ronayers.com ---- even the special tools.   I also bought  a 12 point l 32 mm socket  for the clutch lock nut and a 12 pt box end wrench for the output shaft from grainger.  I had to buy the clutch holder and shaft holder special tools, because I could not find an alternative. I did not buy one of the clutch holder tools (there are two tools).  I tried using a rubber band grip wrench on the outside of the clutch housing and broke the band because of the high torque required.  I solved the problem in a back yard mechanic way by using a impact wrench precisely set to the torgue setting required (trial and error method on a piece of scrap and calibrating the impact wrench against a torgue wrench).  I am now in the final assembly stages of putting the wiring back together.     BUT....

I just ran into another question/problem which I will post on this forum and here.  I have two wires, one blue and one yellow running to a sensor under the engine on the front right side.  I can not find this sensor in the microfiche nor in the manual.  I have looked at the trigger and ECT mods and they do not show the wires.  When  I was disassembling the bike, I marked the blue wire specifically going to the sensor.  But the yellow wire appeared to go nowhere.  Also, the ends are spade connectors but not weather proofed as I would expect from the factory, which leads me to believe this is some kind of aftermarket device.  Does anyone know what this is and where it goes?

Also, the ECT was done on this machine but the previous owner disonnected it and cut out the diode and cut the wires to the pot.  I have diodes in my parts bin, does it matter what kind of diode?  It is also hard to see the polarity of the diode in the pictures I found on this forum.  Good biking, Mike

[ossiningvalkyrie]

leaves an unacceptable response  including your personal site does not think my email addy is real

Go to valkyrieriders.com  tech board if you dont get an answer here:flamer:

[grennels]

Hydrolock requires TWO conditions
to occur.  

1) Leaking petkock
2) Stuck float.

[rodeo1]

ya know,

i'm 59 years old. i have literally grown up in the automobile business (all phases) i was on a bike by the time i was able to hold it up.

i have worked in the field as a mechanic, body man, painter, even in sales as my family had car and bike dealerships.

i have never in all my years seen a hydrolocked engine. at least not from an internal cause like fuel. i did see a car hydrolocked by sucking water into the engine while it was running.

until i started reading the valk. board i swear i have never heard of it happening to any other bike, ever ! since reading the valk. board it seems like a subject which comes up pretty often. what the heck is the problem with the "best cruiser in the world" that it has this problem ?

[Valker]

....having six carbs with 6 floats? The only other bike I have heard of this on is the Kawasaki 6 before it was injected. I wonder if it was a problem on the old CBX? I think that one had Keihin CV carbs though.

[Cycho]

I suspect it's a carb float thing also.  The only time I ever had a problem was when the bike was on a trailer bouncing for two thousand miles.  Pulled the plugs, blew the gas out of one cylinder and all was well.  Now I always drain the carbs when I trailer the bike.

Dan

[lewmed]

The hydrolock problem is common on radial engines like aircraft engines and even the 9 cylinder engines used in WWII Sherman tanks the lower cylinders would ac* # & $* # & $* # & $ulate fuel or oil. Thats why you see pilots walk the prop around by hand before starting the engine. The same thing holds true for the Valkryie if a carb or fuel valve leaks fuel it will ac* # & $* # & $* # & $ulate in the lower cylinders and will not compress when the piston comes up, it could be worse you can break a rod or even blow a cylinder off. On a upright engine the fuel will run past the piston rings and end up in the crankcase I bet you have seen that on a motorcycle before. My old british bikes were real bad about it the fuel would wash the oil off the cylinder walls and zap!! no compression.

My engine hydrolocked last winter for exact reasons unknown. Honda ended putting a brand new engine in it, (luckily I hve an extended warranty), anyway, this winter I'm going to drain the carbs before storing it. What I'm wondering is, if I would gain anything by leaving the drain screws on the carbs open all winter (with a drain pan under the drain hose, of course). If the pet* # & $* # & $* # & $* # & $ decided to leak, it seems like the gas would deain out of the carbs thus preventing hydrolock. I may end up with some gas spilled out on the floor, but anything is better than another hydrolock. I'd like to hear some feedback on this, what you folks think of this idea?

[grennels]

Originally posted by rodeo1
ya know,

i'm 59 years old. i have literally grown up in the automobile business (all phases) i was on a bike by the time i was able to hold it up.

i have worked in the field as a mechanic, body man, painter, even in sales as my family had car and bike dealerships.

i have never in all my years seen a hydrolocked engine. at least not from an internal cause like fuel. i did see a car hydrolocked by sucking water into the engine while it was running.

until i started reading the valk. board i swear i have never heard of it happening to any other bike, ever ! since reading the valk. board it seems like a subject which comes up pretty often. what the heck is the problem with the "best cruiser in the world" that it has this problem ?

Any number of bikes can have this problem.   Far more common on bikes with vacuum operated fuel valves.
But leave a manual fuel valve "on" with a leaking float valve and BINGO.  I am personally aware of this happening on BMW airheads and Kawi ZRX11 and 12's.



OK?? Why aren't we allowed to refer to negative atmospheric pressure
(the word for the appliance used to clean carpets)


After reading other posts above, I think the censoring software on this board is dialed up WAY too high.