DarkSide Questions

[PAVALKER]

Ok, I went to the DarkSide yesterday (Hankook Ventus HRII 205-55R-16 90H, Treadware 340, Traction Rating A, Temperature Rating A, and have taken a few local rides to get the feel for this tire.... But I'm not necessarily convinced either way at the moment. I have some issues/questions that I hope some can help me with.

- How many Plys and what type on the sidewall do most of you have? Mine is one Ply.... and I am wondering IF this one Ply sidewall has any bearing on my next question....

- Has anyone felt a "light" or somewhat shakey or rubber feeling in the front end? It's hard to describe... Front tire is a Avon Venom. Seemed ok when I had an Avon on the rear.... but can't remember if it responded this way.

I am still in the evaluation stages and wanting to get this issue resolved. The ride in the straights is great and only a little rear end wiggle when changing lane but do notice having to push it into a corner (counter steer) more so.

Any help would be appreciated.... Thanks.   

Specifically interested in knowing the number/type of sidewall plys on your DarkSide Tire... and yes, it is imprinted on the sidewall of the tire itself actually.

[Russian Concussion]

i recall seeing this question elsewhere 

you need to embrace it with an open mind, a strong arm and a lil' bit of caution

it'll break in in a few hundred miles and man will you you feel freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...........

[PAVALKER]

Yep I asked the same question on the VRCC... and you basically gave me the same response but didn't answer the sidewall ply question   That is what I want to know or IF there are other issues I should be looking at.  I know the CT is not the same as the MT..... and am giving it a go, but want to make sure other issues are not causing interferrence in the evaluation stage here.

Initially was running 35psi and had to bump up the preload on the shocks to 4 from 2 to get rid of the right side rubbing.  That worked fine, but I still want to know about the loose feeling.

[Russian Concussion]

i am not sure why you feel it's on the looser side

my initial feeling was the bike was super stiff and had to be wrangled all the time

the next day after installing the tire i went for a 550+ mile ride to Canada and made friends with the tire. it stopped being stiff and stubborn halfway through the ride. granted, mine is a different tire - i posted its description on the VRCC board.

flexible sidewall is essential to good CT handling. i am not sure single ply tire is a good choice as it has to withstand a lot of everchanging pressure. i honestly don't know how many plys are in mine but it sounds like it's reinforced.

you also want to get rid of the nut cages on the rear fender as chaging the shock load is not a cure-all, especially with a passenger.

[MP]

It is amazing the different thoughts on a "good" CT.  I bought a Michilin Hydroedge to put on when my Avon wears out. 
On the Gold wing board, almost everyone uses a runflat tire.  They talk about how great it is to have a very stiff sidewall tire. ie, they can run it woutout any air!
Here, we want a flexible sidewall!
I do not know who, or if both, are right!
MP

[Russian Concussion]

there must be a good logical explanation to both choices. trying it out for yourself is probably the ultimate answer. runflat sounds like a good safety idea for a bike that only relies on two tires instead of four. as far as riding comfort i am personally not sure - will have to try a runflat tire whenever my current CT needs to be replaced (i'm not holding my breath for at least another 20K miles)

[timk519]

Ok, I went to the DarkSide yesterday (Hankook Ventus HRII 205-55R-16 90H, Treadware 340, Traction Rating A, Temperature Rating A, and have taken a few local rides to get the feel for this tire.... But I'm not necessarily convinced either way at the moment. I have some issues/questions that I hope some can help me with.

- How many Plys and what type on the sidewall do most of you have? Mine is one Ply.... and I am wondering IF this one Ply sidewall has any bearing on my next question....

Michelin Primacy MXV4 205/60/16, VR rated, I don't know how many plys the sidewall has.

(http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&KEYWORD=tires.jsp_Michelin_Primacy_MXV4_Tire&code=yes&tireModel=Primacy+MXV4&GCID=C13674x012-tire&AID=10398365&PID=3034118)

- Has anyone felt a "light" or somewhat shakey or rubber feeling in the front end? It's hard to describe... Front tire is a Avon Venom. Seemed ok when I had an Avon on the rear.... but can't remember if it responded this way.

Something like that - I think it's partly an issue with the rear tire's pressure. I ran at 31 lbs to start, and overall it felt pretty good except when going down a ramp, the back end felt squiggly, but overall the feel was "normal". When I raised the pressure a few lbs (to 35 I think), and the sqiggly feeling on the ramp went away, but the on-road feeling changed similar to what you describe.

Part of the issue may be that I have the rear shocks at "5", and should probably soften them up a bit.

I am still in the evaluation stages and wanting to get this issue resolved. The ride in the straights is great and only a little rear end wiggle when changing lane but do notice having to push it into a corner (counter steer) more so.

That's the strange thing for me - I haven't really had to "push" it into the corners yet, but I have had to do more counter-steering, but I'm attributing that more to being off the bike since last winter and haven't gotten back into the swing of riding.

[ossvalk]

HMMM
I have a 280  AA  A rated Toyo Proxes

I started at 38 and progressively lowered to 31.  Traction is amazing.  No more tar snake wiggle but Ruts are awful. Potholes are now insignificant.  Mileage is the same.

When I get my new front brakes on I will start feelin it out on my home turf and on some rotary's. The bike is grounded cause I have no front brakes, wore em out to the nubs.

Found this out when I got a avon cobra for the front at americade

Toyo is great straight line, rain start and stop  My head however has to catch up to this tire's abilities on the turns twisties and downhills,   especially the downhill curves   I frankly would be a danger to my friends on the road who are behind me right now and I know it so I am sitting out the ride in this year.

keep seeing the image of my good friends TD and K in Eureka who I was right in back of when the pig guts did their thing on em and  also thinkin of KC and this is not the normal Oss kind of thoughts.   I cant keep being paranoid that there is oil or chicken guts on every piece of highway forever so I shall persevere my friends and stop thinking so much when riding about the point where the tire may let go or the car tire shall eventually come off.

Hope the car tire stays as it is way cool looking  : )

I will miss all of you and will send those bagels Tazzy dont worry

[Cartman]

I am looking into getting a car tire for my valk too and want to know which tire and how you like it so far from anyone who is running one.

Thanks

[Pistolchamp]

Here's an observed thought, how interesting!!!

Instead of everyone being a "test pilot", just use the info gleaned from hundreds of thousands of miles of previous test pilots and use one of three or four "proven" tires.  I run a 205/65R16 Michelin Hydroedge.  32 psi, happy as a clam with over 17,000 miles on it.  Many others use this tire with similar results.  The debate over 55, 60 or 65 aspect ratios is a personal thing and I doubt it will be resolved anytime soon.  There are good reasons for each, so like I said its personal.

The Goodyear Tripletread is also popular as are several others.  I have noticed that most people who don't like the car tire on back attempted to cheap their way into it and bought the first fifty dollar tire they could find... I did it to, a Cooper SLE Lifeliner that I ran to nearly bald (only 21,000 miles, the Michelin is likely to double that).  I thought it was good, until I installed the Hydroedge, holy cow what a difference a $140 tire is over a $60 tire.  I run my shocks on 5, did the nut cage mod and ride hard enough to drag a peg from time-to-time and pull a trailer a lot and often run two up, I'll not go back to a bike tire.  I've got 56,300 miles on my '03 standard with all but the first 19,000 on a car tire.  Several heart surgeries and two strokes have prevented me from topping 100,000 miles on this bike, but, I will eventually.

If you're doing the car tire thing to save money okay, but, do it with a really good tire not a cheapy chinese POS.  If you are doing it for a performance gain, same deal, you'll get more for your money with a good tire.  I did it for safety and performance.  Its much better in four important issues, rear wheel braking, wet riding, cornering capability and load carrying capability.  My Michelin cost less than a new Dunlop E3 or Avon and will outlast a bike tire two or three times, so there's your cost savings, not by buying the cheapest tire made... and in my experience cheapest ain't best, not even close.  If we who have gone this route before make no difference in your decision, look to the Formula One and NASCAR guys, they don't run Nankook, Runway, Kumo or whatever, they run Goodyear, Michelin and other top quality tires, it makes some sense... their teams spent millions getting it right, we did it on guts and learned from each other... and got the same answer, and probably eventually spent the same amount of money, just slower.

I'm sure this message will fire the ire of thousands of you, so what, I'm old and used to being hollered at... I won't pay any attention.

[timk519]

Here's an observed thought, how interesting!!!

Instead of everyone being a "test pilot", just use the info gleaned from hundreds of thousands of miles of previous test pilots and use one of three or four "proven" tires.  I run a 205/65R16 Michelin Hydroedge.  32 psi, happy as a clam with over 17,000 miles on it.  Many others use this tire with similar results.  The debate over 55, 60 or 65 aspect ratios is a personal thing and I doubt it will be resolved anytime soon.  There are good reasons for each, so like I said its personal.

For me it's not a matter of being a test pilot, but getting used to the tire and getting the bike dialed in for how I ride. I imagine the shock settings and overall weight play a part in getting to that final "sweet spot."

I agree completely on getting a good tire - like everything else, it's pay a lot now and less over time, or play less over and over and over again.

I'm sure this message will fire the ire of thousands of you, so what, I'm old and used to being hollered at... I won't pay any attention.

 

[timk519]

I am looking into getting a car tire for my valk too and want to know which tire and how you like it so far from anyone who is running one.

There's a "Darkside" registry of valks and their tires out there somewhere, but I can't recall where the web page is.

Perhaps someone can post the link here?

[ossvalk]

http://www.totallypissedoff.com/Darkside/darkside.htm

Sure did look to several, well everyone who would reply before venturing to the dark side and did take some of pistolchamp, dan mayer's and valker's advise to get a real sweet tire, not a cheap one and have one used by a friend who race at Lime Rock in souped up bmw's.   

The site above is loaded with great feedback which I recommend anyone read before buying,  Also it was helpful to try some darkside tires before buying and I tried the tripletred and cooper myself which were mounted on Bonzo and Mike Lynch's bikes.

See that a dozen folks got their dark side numbers today over on the gen vrcc forum  congratulations to all
including Gig who apparently has returned to the dark side following a year absence

Enjoy your father's days rides everyone !!!

[PAVALKER]

Here's an observed thought, how interesting!!!

Instead of everyone being a "test pilot", just use the info gleaned from hundreds of thousands of miles of previous test pilots and use one of three or four "proven" tires.  I run a 205/65R16 Michelin Hydroedge.  32 psi, happy as a clam with over 17,000 miles on it.  Many others use this tire with similar results.  The debate over 55, 60 or 65 aspect ratios is a personal thing and I doubt it will be resolved anytime soon.  There are good reasons for each, so like I said its personal.

The Goodyear Tripletread is also popular as are several others.  I have noticed that most people who don't like the car tire on back attempted to cheap their way into it and bought the first fifty dollar tire they could find... I did it to, a Cooper SLE Lifeliner that I ran to nearly bald (only 21,000 miles, the Michelin is likely to double that).  I thought it was good, until I installed the Hydroedge, holy cow what a difference a $140 tire is over a $60 tire.  I run my shocks on 5, did the nut cage mod and ride hard enough to drag a peg from time-to-time and pull a trailer a lot and often run two up, I'll not go back to a bike tire.  I've got 56,300 miles on my '03 standard with all but the first 19,000 on a car tire.  Several heart surgeries and two strokes have prevented me from topping 100,000 miles on this bike, but, I will eventually.

If you're doing the car tire thing to save money okay, but, do it with a really good tire not a cheapy chinese POS.  If you are doing it for a performance gain, same deal, you'll get more for your money with a good tire.  I did it for safety and performance.  Its much better in four important issues, rear wheel braking, wet riding, cornering capability and load carrying capability.  My Michelin cost less than a new Dunlop E3 or Avon and will outlast a bike tire two or three times, so there's your cost savings, not by buying the cheapest tire made... and in my experience cheapest ain't best, not even close.  If we who have gone this route before make no difference in your decision, look to the Formula One and NASCAR guys, they don't run Nankook, Runway, Kumo or whatever, they run Goodyear, Michelin and other top quality tires, it makes some sense... their teams spent millions getting it right, we did it on guts and learned from each other... and got the same answer, and probably eventually spent the same amount of money, just slower.

I'm sure this message will fire the ire of thousands of you, so what, I'm old and used to being hollered at... I won't pay any attention.

Thanks for your comments.  No flaming or hollering here....   but I sure wish others would chime in as well.  I know everyone has opinions but the more information available, the better it is to make a decision.    A darkside registry would be nice....  

I reduced tire pressure and still have the "jello" feeling when I shake the handlebars on the Valk.  Tried that on my X and not hardly at all.... but have 2 Elite 3's on that.  I am still not convinced it is the rear tire causing the problem with the loose feel in the front end.... so I will check out the front end.  I like the stability feel of the rear car tire but still have a slight rub on occasion and will check out something I read (and have to find again) about a washer modificiation.

I just might have to splurge and get a good tire.... but want to try to iron out the loose front end feeling with this one, IF in fact this tire is even the cause of it.

Keep the input and comment comming.....  Thanks.

[timk519]

A darkside registry would be nice....   

Oss posted a link to this site: http://www.totallypissedoff.com/Darkside/darkside.htm