final drive spline replaced & new tires.

I need final drive spline replaced and new tires. I know I need spline (final gear) replaced because last new set of tires they told me I should have it done soon. Now after alot (15k?) of hard miles on those new tires I feel it even more now. Problem is shops won't do the job all at once (even dealers). They want to have a look when I get new tires then order the parts and schedule another appiontment to have it installed.
 I'm thinking if I brought the right parts with me I could have it done at the same time as my tires, saving labor cost and down time. Honda sells 'Final Gear Set' pack for $250. and there is also a 'Flange Set' I was told I might need for $125. I not getting very good info on this, even though many Wings and some Valks have it done.
 Somebody, Please give some good advise on this.
                  Thank You
                  Rusty Robins   rustyrobins@msn.com
                  http://www.rustyrobins.com

['KC']

Rusty, first off how many miles do you have on the bike? If you have less than 100,000 miles on it, and the final drive lube has been changed regularly, I doubt that there is anything wrong with your gear set.
I would think that it is much more likely that it is your flange set. The flange set consists of a set of 5 finger like pins that slide into metal sleeves that are in rubber blocks in the rear wheel.
If you are around the 35,000 to 60,000 mile range, you are likely about ready to repalace the rubber blocks, and sleeves in the wheel that the drive flange slides into.
I still would doubt that the gear set is bad, I would have the servicing shop PROVE that one to me.
If you are in the Seattle/Everett area, maybe we could get together to take a look at it. I also know a reputable shop in Everett that is pretty good and fairly reasonable.
You could go to geocities.com/verminnw the website for the VERMIN,(ValkyriE Riders and Members In the NorthWest). Then check out the members page, and try to contact Charles "Ratdog" Green. He has become one of the local Valkyrie guru's.
If you are coming to the Oyster Run this Sunday, in Anacortes. You should be able to find me, and a lot of the rest of the VERMIN there on Main St., as you enter the bike parking coming into town.

K C  I mostlikely will go up and I know most of the early Vermins (4yrs bk). I will ask around for you within the Vermin gang. If we don't talk then maybe early next week I'll buz. Thanks for responeding and I'll be looking foward to picking your head and others also.
Oh, my bike has 65k miles and I ride pretty hard, so, who knows?
see ya later      Rusty Robins

['KC']

I'll look for you Sunday then, hope to see you.

There are splines all over the place on these bikes. The difficulty in replacing them depends on which ones you're talking about. Starting at the transmission and working backwards (this is also most difficult to least difficult):

1. There are splines on the output shaft where the universal fits on.  If these are stripped, you need to disassemble the tranny - big job best left to the pros. Big bucks. There are so many special tools required for a tranny rebuild that you'd go broke buying them to do it yourself, and then you'd face a bewildering task.

2. There are splines on the front of the drive shaft where it fits into the universal. If these have to be replaced, you're facing a big job but do-able in your garage if you want to spend the time.  You'll need a way to jack up the bike and hold it up while you work on it (don't let it tip over - it's heavy).  You'll have to take off the rear wheel and the swing arm. You'll need one special tool from Honda to get the swingarm loose - about $50.  I don't know what the driveshaft costs.

3. There are splines on the back of the driveshaft where it fits into the final drive.  If these are bad, you'll have to replace the driveshaft.  So it's about the same as number 2 above.

4. There a splines on the final drive that accept the drive shaft.  You'll have to open the final drive.  I've never done it, and it might be too much for a home mechanic.  You might be able to remove the final drive and bring it to your Honda shop and have them rebuild it - you'll save a bunch of disassembly/reassembly money.  What you'll have to do is jack the bike up, remove the rear wheel and then the final drive.  This will take some time, but it's do-able.

5. There are splines on the final drive where the final driven flange fits on.  Ditto for number 4 above.

6.  There are splines on the final driven flange that fit into the final drive.  Jack the bike up, remove the rear wheel, install a new final driven flange, reassemble, go riding.  This job can be done on a Saturday if you have all the usual tools.  Plan to spend the day.  The Honda store will not have a new final driven flange in stock.

A couple words of advise:

1. Get a shop manual before you start any of this.

2. Taking the rear wheel off entails removing the exhaust system. Big pain in the ass.

3.  To put the header nuts back on the exhaust system use 1/4" drive ratchet, extensions, a swivel and 10mm socket.  You'll go crazy trying to get them on otherwise.  Torque to 7 ft/lbs - don't overtighten or you'll be sorry.      

4.  Lubricate all splines with Honda's molybdenum disulfide paste.  If you use grease or some other substitute, your newly rejuvenated splines will dissolve about as fast as sugar in hot tea.  Sure you'll save $5, though!


Good luck

Peter

[Valker]

I have taken the rear wheel off numerous times and have never even loosened the exhaust. I can have the rear wheel off and drive shaft out in about 30 minutes after it is up on the lift. I use Amsoil 2000 grease on all my splines-60,000 miles and zero noticeable wear so far.
PS-I don't ride easy either

Valker, I don't want to get into it with you and I don't mean this as a flame, but...

I, for one, don't want to spend a few hundred dollars on parts and then skimp on some cheap commodity like grease.  Splines are high wear components. A generous supply of the Honda lubricant is about $10.

I don't care if you use peanut butter to grease your splines! But what do you risk by using a non-recommended lubricant, and what do you save?  Again, I don't mean it as a flame, just my opinion.

As to removing the rear wheel without taking off the exhaust: I'd like to hear how it's done - maybe some pictures.  There is a law of physics that two objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time.  How do you get the axle to pass through the muffler?  I've seen other posts that there is a way, but what is it?

Peter

[Valker]

I was just telling that I have no problem with wear, not that one shouldn't use the Honda paste-although there is a company in Houston that sells a 70% Moly paste that beats the Honda one for price and moly content!! Most of the folks that have had a problem with the splines have found DRY splines when they are checked (although I think peanut butter would be too abrasive ;-)
As to the rear wheel removal, I put it on a lift (Sam's), put a length of 2x4 under the rear wheel in line with the bike, remove the shock bolts (bottom ones but the top should be about the same)and lower the rear wheel (or raise the bike more) until the axle can be removed from UNDER the pipes. Some of the bolts have to be removed before you drop the rear tire, but it is easier to do than to explain. The rear wheel pulls out to the left (remove the 2x4 first) then drops and can be removed. I usually pull the drive unit by loosening the 3 or 4 bolts holding it to the shaft as it makes getting the wheel out a bit easier, but either way works. While I have the final drive unit off, I change the lube in it (easy when it is off), lube the splines, pull the shaft out of the housing and lube both ends of it. I usually put a thin film of grease on the rubber baby buggy bumpers in the wheel and on the shafts that go through those. Lots of folks have had to replace the rubber parts, mine look like new. BTW-I also grease (thin film) the rubber grommets on my shocks before reassembly. I hope this explanation makes some sense.

Thanks for the explanation of removing the wheel w/o removing the exhause system.  Yeah, it makes sense, but I'd like to see  it done.  Next time you do it take some digi-pics and post them if you don't mind.

As to the moly-paste, there are more than one manufacturer of this stuff, of course.  The advantages to the Honda stuff are that the source is easy to find, and you know it's the right stuff.

Rattlebars points to this stuff http://www.tsmoly.com/ts70.htm as a substitute.  Looks okay.  But I don't have any idea what the specs mean since I'm not a chemical engineer.

Peter

[Parrot Head]

Valker,

Do you remove the rear section of the rear fender as recommended by the manual as part of your removal method.

Looking to remove both wheels for the first time.  I have the Honda manual, my lift, an Interstate adapter, and planned on using a floor jack to support and positon the rear wheel.   Not looking forward to removing exhaust systems in addition to saddlebags and supports.

Thanks for your reply.

[Valker]

..I understand that removing the bottom part of the fender isn't hard to do.

Removing the bottom of the fender is duck soup.  Let's see if I remember all the bolts...

Remove the seat.  Under the trunk there is an Allen head screw - remove it.

Take the hard bags off.  There are four 10mm(I think) bolts on each bag.  Be careful not to scratch the paint.

To get the wheel off on an I/S you'll have to take the hard bag mounting brackets off.  Strictly speaking, to get the fender piece off, you only have to remove two bolts - one on each side - on the upper rear of the bracket.  

Remove the other bolts on the bracket (let's see if I remember where they all are ;-)).  On each side: there's one in the front top, one in the front bottom.  I think that's all.  If not, they're pretty obvious.

At this point the fender piece is dangling on the wires that go to the tail light, turn signals etc.  Unplug the four-wire connector and remove the fender piece.

Peter

[Grizhead]

1 Remove bags and heat shield if Tour. or Interstate.
2. Remove left muffler nuts and pull muffler studs out of the mounting holes. This will let the swing arm drop down.
3. Remove the lower shock bolts.
4. Now jack up the bike, the axel will now clear under the right muffler.
5. Remove the brake caliper and tie it up.
6. Remove the four nuts off of the drive shaft housing.
7. Remove the axel nut and axel.
At this point the tire and rear assembly will slide out.

Have fun.  I thought I had a problem with my rear assembly this summer and I removed it three times and then figured out that it was normal.